Log of the #fcrepo channel on chat.freenode.net

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ruebot: 2PM today?09:42
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<ruebot>ajs6f: yeah. that work for you?09:47
<ajs6f>ruebot: It's good enough, although I might be eating as we talk. We need to get this thing put to bed.09:48
<ruebot>ajs6f: agreed!09:50
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<ruebot>awoods: ping10:37
<awoods>on a call
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<ruebot>Time to sprint!10:57
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<whikloj>ruebot: 12 ET is better for me too11:20
ruebot: anytime is open11:21
ruebot: 2pm ET, right11:22
ruebot: yes 12ET on 14th11:23
ruebot: I can help but escowles has more experience
ruebot: do stuff, tell you I did stuff, tell you if I can't do stuff11:24
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<ruebot>pketienne_, westgard: just added a link to the ticket :-)11:36
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<whikloj>ruebot: I'm good12:05
<escowles>i'm still here
<whikloj>excuses excuses12:06
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<awoods>nice avatar awead12:15
<pketienne_>Cool. Thanks all!12:17
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<westgard>awoods or ruebot would one of you mind closing https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-2245 ? I don't think I have sufficient rights to do it.12:29
<awoods>westgard: will do12:30
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<whikloj>awoods/ruebot: Would using the existing logger impl be acceptable for FCREPO-2169 and FCREPO-2170?
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[fcrepo-import-export] escowles created skip-pairtrees (+1 new commit): https://git.io/v14Wg
fcrepo-import-export/skip-pairtrees cdaa25b Esmé Cowles: Skipping Pairtree resources
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[fcrepo-import-export] escowles opened pull request #47: Skipping Pairtree resources (master...skip-pairtrees) https://git.io/v14Wp
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<awoods>whikloj: I think a separate log would make sense... and therefore a separate logger.
<whikloj>awoods: ok, thanks
<awoods>whikloj: the existing logging is more for debug/info details. These two tickets are talking about something more like an audit of the process.13:48
whikloj: this ticket also seem related: https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-2237
whikloj: ...in terms of log format13:49
<ruebot>whikloj: you good to go? just got to campus after disappearing for an hour.
escowles++ https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-import-export/pull/47 -- i'll start putting it through its paces13:50
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<ajs6f>ruebot:awoods: Freeconfcall at 2?13:54
<ruebot>awead: i'm going to test https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-import-export/pull/47 with a couple of the datasets. you want to test with the hydra dataset?
ajs6f, awoods: works for me
ajs6f, awoods: ...or i should say, easier for me
<awead>ruebot: sure!
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<whikloj>awoods: In terms of format I think I'm good. I was thinking of implementation that re-using the logging would be easier. But I see your point, I'll have a look
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ajs6f: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FF/2016-12-08+-+Fedora+Tech+Meeting14:38
<awoods>ajs6f: please add a fixity/spec topic to the Thurs agenda ^^14:43
<ajs6f>awoods: No, I already did14:44
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<ajs6f> Didn't you?
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<ruebot>westgard: entrance :-)
<westgard>oops forgot the slash :-)14:54
abracadabra poof I disappear!
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<ruebot>awead: let me know if you see something similar https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-import-export/pull/47#issuecomment-26495909014:59
<awead>ruebot: did you see this with the hydra dataset?15:03
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<ajs6f>Does anyone want to have a long, fruitless discussion about whether fixity is a kind of description and therefore deserves a Link@rel="describedby" ?
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<whikloj>ajs6f: Ooooooooo...no
<ajs6f>awoods: The reason I want to do that is because it makes the lifecycle management more clear, to my reasoning. We can "factor out" lifecycle into the notion of description.15:16
whikloj: Good, then let's begin.15:17
* ajs6f pulls out dental instruments...
<whikloj>ajs6f: are you suggesting that the fixity is a description of the object?
It is one amongst many possible descriptions.15:18
<whikloj>Rather than a statement about whether the object has changed since a previous point in time
<ajs6f>Here's an argument: fixity is easy to put into technical metadata.
Technical metadata is a description.
If you substract everything out of the technical metadata except fixity,
you still have a description.
whikloj: It is that, also.15:19
whikloj: If you like, it is a description of identity.
Rather than a description of state.
<whikloj>Ok, so for the term "fixity" are we talking about a statement about the identity or a statement about the "correctness" of that identity at some point in time?
<ajs6f>That depends on how we model identity. Which is a canister of nerve gas we don't want to touch.15:20
<whikloj>I always think of fixity as either generating that identity verifier (ie. checksum) or verifying that identity (ie. comparing checksums)
<ajs6f>whikloj; That's the act of asking for or using a fixity assertion.15:21
whikloj: I'm taling about the _record_ of such an act.
The _record_ is descriptive.
<whikloj>ajs6f: you're talking about the record of (in layman's terms) generating a checksum or checking a checksum?15:22
<ajs6f>whikloj: Well, a fixity resouce is such a record. I'm saying that the assertion it makes is about the original resource, and therefore such an assertion is descriptive of that original resource.15:23
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<ajs6f>whikloj: Here's the intuition: suppose you expressed a fixity check in RDF. What would be the subject of the triples?
<whikloj>ajs6f: probably the thing that was checked15:24
You are writing down a remark about the thing that you checked.
You are _describing_ that thing.
<whikloj>ajs6f: ok I see what you're saying
<ajs6f>Good, because I'm about to change my mind entirely, just for the hell of it. Then _you'll_ have to convince _me_ of this.15:25
<whikloj>ajs6f: Maybe I'm not sure about "describedby", it is a weird description
<ajs6f>It is a weird description. But then, so is describing a digital image as being "about" Winnipeg.
Description is weird. Aboutness is an endless vortex of self-reference.15:26
If anything, technical metadata (e.g. fixity) is realtively strraightforward.
<whikloj>ajs6f: I guess but a fixity check doesn't really say this item "is" anything, it says this item "is" the same as it "was" before15:28
for all forms of "is" and "was"
<ajs6f>whikloj: No, I don't see that.
It says "You claim that thus-and-such (e.g. a checksum) is a valid description of this thing,
according to some agreed-upon rules. I will go follow those rules and tell you if I agree with you about that claim.15:29
The interpretation in time arises over more than one fixity check.
It's not inherent in a single check.
<whikloj>but the interpretation is just that the thing has remained the same, the description is very specific and yet seems kinda vague.15:30
<ajs6f>The description is "x has-fixity 83454534"15:31
<whikloj>ajs6f: I gotta have another meeting, I don't know if I could convince you of this
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[fcrepo-import-export] escowles created roundtrip (+1 new commit): https://git.io/v14Pe
fcrepo-import-export/roundtrip fd8cb86 Esmé Cowles: Adding IT demonstrating failure to import into subdirectory
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<ajs6f>whikloj: the important thing is, we agreed that stuff is hard.
And that's what really matters.
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[fcrepo-import-export] escowles opened pull request #48: Adding IT demonstrating failure to import into subdirectory (master...roundtrip) https://git.io/v14Pz
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<whikloj>ajs6f: totally agree15:49
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<whikloj>ruebot/awoods: Does a count consider a description as one object or should we count each member?16:07
<awoods>whikloj: sigh... sorry for not being more available... meetings Monday16:08
<whikloj>awoods: np
<ruebot>awead: it was with Plant Patents16:11
awead: this one https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-sample-dataset/tree/master/additional_datasets/plantpatents16:12
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<ruebot>[Import/Export Standup]19:26
Finished yesterday:
- Wearing sprint leader hat
- Tested & resolved https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-2259
- I shouldn't have assigned myself https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-2252
- Testing/validation https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-import-export/pull/47
Working on today (tomorrow):
- https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-2237
- Testing/validation https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-import-export/pull/47
- Testing/validation https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-import-export/pull/48
- I have an interview in the morning, and won't be back around until 11AM ET at the earliest19:27
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[fcrepo4] awoods opened pull request #1147: Fcrepo 2323 (master...fcrepo-2323) https://git.io/v1B22
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<awoods>[Import/Export Standup]00:30
Finished yesterday:
Updated JIRA permissions to allow "Reviewer" to close tickets
Working on today:
Keeping up with sprint team activity... and helping when needed
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