Log of the #fcrepo channel on chat.freenode.net

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[fcrepo4-swordserver] claussni pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vWAJF
fcrepo4-swordserver/master 1620cb7 Aaron Coburn: define scm directly instead of relying on inheritance
fcrepo4-swordserver/master 8343d84 Ralf Claussnitzer: Merge pull request #11 from acoburn/fcrepo-1783...
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fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo4-swordserver#50 (master - 8343d84 : Ralf Claussnitzer): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo4-swordserver/compare/ea2a032d6bee...8343d84776a3
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo4-swordserver/builds/88078906
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<acoburn>dhlamb: awoods: I just got fcrepo-kernel-modeshape to _start up and run_ in karaf09:15
…meaning the MODE and ISPN layers are up and running
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<avmich>should ModeShape's repository.json contain "clustering: {...}" element, if clustering is needed?09:32
<awoods>acoburn: that is historic09:33
<avmich>I'm getting org.modeshape.jcr.ConfigurationException: The configuration for the 'repo' repository has problems: ERROR: Error at clustering : The 'clustering' field on '' is not defined in the schema and the schema does not allow additional properties.
<awoods>avmich: would you be interested in collaborating with others in the community who are focused on clustering?
<acoburn>awoods: well, it's still held together with duct tape and glue
<awoods>acoburn: that is how history begins09:34
<avmich>do we have such a community? That would be interesting
<awoods>avmich: do you follow the fedora-community list?
<acoburn>avmich: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FF/2015-10-26+Performance+-+Scale+Meeting
<avmich>thank you09:35
<acoburn>avmich: and you may be interested in joining today's tech call: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FF/2015-10-29+-+Fedora+Tech+Meeting
avmich: 11am ET
<avmich>yes, I'm going to listen...
<awoods>avmich: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/fedora-community/pnzkD470Ab0/qpmPiBjnDAAJ
<avmich>aha, no "clustering" in the config...09:36
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<whikloj>awoods: Regarding VersionsRdfContext, if I can't get a breakpoint nor a debug statement to execute from it. How do I know it's being used?
<jcoyne>Is it important that Fc4 exposes resources that end in fcr:export?format=jcr/xml ?09:45
Who is that useful to?
<acoburn>whikloj: are you using this in the context of FedoraResource::getTriples ?09:46
<awoods>jcoyne: it is not useful and should be removed... along with the /fcr:export service (which is deprecated: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FEDORA4x/RESTful+HTTP+API+-+Export+and+Import)09:47
<acoburn>jcoyne: ^^^ what awoods said
<whikloj>acoburn: In the context of fcrepo-1760.
acoburn: It was suggested that the error is generated in VersionsRdfContext, which would make sense except I can't get a simple debug statement from it.09:48
<jcoyne>awoods, acoburn: thanks
<acoburn>whikloj: ok, I clearly need to read all the comments in that ticket09:49
<whikloj>acoburn: I wondered if it was called from ContentExposingResource because using Prefer: minimal stops the error. Which also makes sense.
<awoods>whikloj: a brute-force debugging approach could be to comment out various parts of VersionsRdfContext09:50
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<whikloj>awoods/acoburn: I am right to make my changes to fcrepo4, rebuild. Rebuild fcrepo-webapp-plus with -Pwebac and deploy. Yes?09:51
<acoburn>whikloj: for manual testing, yes, but shouldn't there be an integration test that would catch this?09:52
<awoods>whikloj: right you are, yes.
<whikloj>acoburn: probably, but one thing at a time. I'm not you ;)
<awoods>acoburn: I expect such an integration test will be included in the PR for this ticket.
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[fcrepo-karaf] acoburn opened pull request #15: update feature dependencies for new MODE/ISPN versions (master...fcrepo-1581) http://git.io/vWxV6
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<bseeger>ajs6f, acoburn: I was just looking at the new dev guide web page and thinking about what to put in for the tomcat/jetty stuff we were talking about yesterday. And was thinking, that since it is the new dev. guide, it might not be needed, since it is related to testing code.10:15
ajs6f, acoburn: maybe just a note about only running this way when testing only?
<ajs6f>bseeger: Depends on whether you consider tinkering with config to be that kind of testing. Personally, I don't.10:16
<bseeger>ajs6f: if someone is tinkering with config, would they be on the new developers page? Maybe… I don't know.10:17
<ajs6f>bseeger: Right. I would say not, but maybe they would be. Maybe we need a separate landing page for "You've decided to start customizing your configuration. Here's what you need to know."
<awoods>ajs6f: what is the mysterious other email that acoburn sent related to 1801? re:[fedora-tech] Hash URI Fragments10:29
<ajs6f>awoods: Shit, did I say Coburn when I meant Birkland?>10:30
<awoods>ajs6f: if it makes you feel any better, I sometimes refer to you as Aaron.
<ajs6f>awoods: Can't we just use owl:sameAs between them?10:31
<awoods>ajs6f: we can try
<ajs6f>That submission has the best title ever: "Web Thing Model"
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[fcrepo-karaf] awoods pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vWxbl
fcrepo-karaf/master f64ca81 Aaron Coburn: update feature dependencies for new MODE/ISPN versions
fcrepo-karaf/master 9a0397c Andrew Woods: Merge pull request #15 from acoburn/fcrepo-1581...
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<ajs6f>This is some funky hold music. Kind of Steely Dan-ish.10:58
<ajs6f>I'm here.
<awoods>All: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FF/2015-10-29+-+Fedora+Tech+Meeting11:00
<bseeger>I'm here.
<acoburn>I'm here11:01
<avmich>I'm here11:02
<ruebot>awoods: you go robot voice sometimes
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<whikloj>ruebot: stop using your phone from the closet
<ruebot>whikloj: oh, you're here too!?11:03
<dhlamb>i'm coming... hang on.
<escowles>recognize the ⭐️11:04
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<ajs6f>Sounds like there needs to be a disk-resident triplestore used there. Maybe Jena TDB.11:13
<ruebot>i did :-)11:17
<awoods>and ruebot
<ajs6f>Is anyone else hearing apb18 fade in and out?11:18
<ruebot>yeah. same thing with awoods occassionally.
i wonder if it is the service
<awoods>like he is being wrestled
<ajs6f>That's a great image. apb18 fighting madly with a chimpanzee running around his office, desperately shouting project updates into a 'phone while the chimp keeps tackling him.11:19
<ajs6f>That was a sockdolager of an update.
It's good that anyone is interested in Fedora.
* ruebot snorts11:25
<ajs6f>ruebot: Be careful, or I'll wait until you start talking and then talk right over you.11:27
<ruebot>ajs6f: i may or may not be a gorilla.
<ajs6f>ruebot: Is that something over which you have some kind of doubt?11:29
<ruebot>ajs6f: nowadays. yes.11:30
<ajs6f>ruebot: I threw out my back this past weekend and I've been walking around like gorilla for several days.11:32
CAn do.
awoods: The components in Jira have gotten out of date again. We need to edit them11:40
<dhlamb>loop me in on that, too11:41
<whikloj>ajs6f++ escowles++
<ajs6f>dhlamb: Which 'un?
<escowles>dhlamb: yep!
<dhlamb>the conversation / document / tickets, etc...
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<avmich>just trying to learn...
not nearly enough11:43
<avmich>confusing, contradicting, not working
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<avmich>have to learn :)
<avmich>I'm trying to avoid Ruby
<ajs6f>What does Ruby have to do with anything?
<avmich>the system is complex enough
<dhlamb>avmich: we're in java land
<dhlamb>avmich: and php land
<ajs6f>Is not written in Ruby, anyway.
<avmich>or, rather, better
ok, didn't know11:45
<ruebot>it seems like there is some cross-over with this discussion and the performance scaling conversation
<ajs6f>But Fedora is _all about_ random swirling in isolated eddies.
<avmich>availability... if a node goes down, another will provide access
<ruebot>...clustering -> sharding was something that was brought up11:46
can you repeat?
<ajs6f>Are you muted?
<dhlamb>avmich: sure. i can get the ball rolling on the list and we'll talk about it. there's more to clustering than meets the eye.11:49
Basically, there's clustering for HA, and clustering for performance. What other purpose is there?11:50
<dhlamb>ajs6f: both at the same time
<ajs6f>dhlamb: Is mocha _really_ its own flavor, or is it just chocolate and coffee.
<dhlamb>ajs6f: but that's pretty much it. i know it can get very very tricky, and am glad there's a layer that handles it for me. just need to use it!11:51
<ajs6f>dhlamb: +1
<dhlamb>ajs6f: hahahahaha... but that's an extreme use case that i don't know when i'll run into. hopefully i will :D
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(belated) WebAC standup report:11:53
resolved build issues, investigating where to implement the delegated user
<dhlamb>awoods: drafting messaging now11:54
<ajs6f>Was that Hill Street Blues?12:05
Or TJ Hooker?
<whikloj>acoburn++ # belatedly12:06
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<whikloj>ajs6f: Hill Street Blues12:11
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<peichman>I've got a couple design questions for the delegated user header:12:30
1. should this capability be restricted to users with the admin role? (i.e., it functions as a kind of reverse-sudo)12:31
2. should we honor the other principals in the request given by the other principal providers?
<ajs6f>peichman: 1. is only an issue if the user can delegate through any other user. If each user has a defined list of users through whom they can delegate, no problem.12:32
<peichman>do we know of any specific use cases for the user-user delegation? IIRC the motivation for delegation was to allow a frontend like Hydra to connect to the repo with admin credentials, but make requests as less-privileged users12:34
<ajs6f>peichman: The one that comes up for me is "grad student of prof X needs to act on behalf of prof X" but I don't know that this is really all that pressing. I just thought I would point out that you have more than one way to deal with the issue.12:35
<peichman>for phase 1, would it suffice to do only admin-user delegation?12:36
<ajs6f>peichman: I'm reckon, unless someone else has an objection.12:37
<awoods>piechman: I think for phase1, delegation through a fedoraAdmin is reasonable... escowles? thoughts
<peichman>the implementation I am working on has the delegated user principal replace the original user principal in the ServletContainerAuthenticationProvider, so everything downstream that has to get the authorized user principal gets the delegated user instead12:39
<awoods>peichman: that should work12:41
<ruebot>awoods: do you just sign up for the service to get the ongoing access code?
<awoods>ruebot: yes12:42
<ruebot>awoods: does there always need to be a host, to use the host access code?12:44
<awoods>ruebot: no host needed12:45
<ruebot>awoods: excellent12:47
awoods: we'll give it a shot
<awoods>ruebot: let me know if you would like for me to participate in a test call.12:48
<ruebot>awoods: follow-up question, how difficult would it be to get a confluence space setup to have our call agenda and notes in?
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<awoods>ruebot: on a scale from 1 to 10, where 1 is easy and 10 is very difficult... maybe a 2.12:49
ruebot: would the existing space make sense? https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/ISLANDORA/Islandora12:50
<ruebot>awoods: it could. i'll ask manez and dhlamb what they think.12:51
<awoods>ruebot: the islandora wiki space currently seems under-utilized.12:52
<ruebot>awoods: agreed.
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<jcoyne>@seen tjohnson13:09
sorry, wrong chan
<avmich>acoburn: hi :)13:12
<acoburn>avmich: hi, in a meeting now…
<avmich>got same error from yesterday...
<enleeten>this project is really cool but why call it fedora commons?13:22
<avmich>an acronym?13:23
<enleeten>well there's a huge, huge, huge project already called fedora
it's going to make this project hard to find
it'd be like naming it "Windows Commons" or "Linux Commons"13:24
<avmich>historically RedHat created their project later
<ajs6f>They almost sued us, then realized we were older and that they would lose.
<escowles>enleeten: what avmich said: this fedora predates the linux distro by many years
<enleeten>oh wow, I didn't realize that
<whikloj>awoods: minutes finished13:25
<enleeten>well nm then I guess :)
<enleeten>I'm a fedora commons noob, is it possible to link two fedora repos together and have one serve from another one?13:26
<awoods>thanks, whikloj
<avmich>welcome to the club of fedora commons noobs...
<enleeten>I saw something about filesystem federation but it seemed more about exposing local block storage
<ajs6f>enleeten: You picked a good day to ask that question.
<enleeten>I want to use fedora for digital game assets
<ajs6f>enleeten: Are you talking about… clustering?
<avmich>wild guess...
<enleeten>so your artist creates a 3d model in a source format, he uploads it and then your client can pull down a transformed version that's suitable for real time rendering13:27
I was thinking it'd be cool if he could connect a local instance to your groups instance as a developer
so you could query new versions direct from his machine (say for testing sessions back and forth)
<avmich>sounds like workers in Sufia...
<enleeten>is sufia a part of fedora?13:28
<avmich>Hydra is built on top of Fedora... and Sufia - on top of Hydra
sort of
<ajs6f>enleeten: Fedora, by and large, is not really used for that kind of fast-moving transactional work. That's not to say it can't be. But historically, people who are interested in Fedora are interested in preservation and making digital resources durable.13:29
<avmich>and Sufia includes - in addition to storage - possible modifications of content
ajs6f: from what I learned about Fedora, that would be strange to use for fast transactions...13:30
<ajs6f>avmich: That's pretty much what I said.
<enleeten>how so? I stumbled on fedora because I wanted to write a little server that could manage versions of digital assets, as well as allow the user to query for transformed/variants of the original file
<avmich>I'm just agreeing
<enleeten>with a REST interface
<ajs6f>avmich: Ah. +1 all around.
<enleeten>so when I started looking at fedora, it seemed to be just what I wanted
what do you mean by "fast transactions" in this case?
<avmich>does Fedora look like a little server?.. not to me...13:32
<ajs6f>enleeten: Yes, and Fedora can do that. But Fedora is going to demand some overhead for use, and the question is, are the extra abilities that Fedora is going to give you over a simpler choice going to be worth it.
<enleeten>well servers are fast these days :)
<avmich>but understanding of large bodies of code is slow
<enleeten>I assume IO is not the bottleneck somehow?
<ajs6f>enleeten: The kind of work that a 3D designer does implies that there are going to be a lot of small transactions between client and server. That's not the kind of workload for which Fedora is really optimized. Doesn't mean it could work and couldn't work well. It's just an unusual use case, which means caution is advised.13:33
<avmich>Fedora is built on top of ModeShape, which is built on top of Infinispan, which uses various loaders and storers... you can choose
<enleeten>oh no, this would be uploading new versions that would be at least a few megabytes to dozens to hundreds in some cases13:34
to clarify, I didn't mean real time changes, the artist would make a set of changes and then commit the new model
<avmich>if you're talking about verions of the same thing - do you want version-specific functions, like comparisons?..
<ajs6f>enleeten: Ah, okay, that sounds a lot more like what Fedora is good at. Well, decent at, anyway.13:35
<avmich>ModeShape actually supports versions... or rather JCR requires that
<enleeten>oh I thought I was some kind of versioning aspect of the rest api
<ajs6f>avmich: Fedora offers a versioning API, which will be evolving independently of the JCR entanglement.
what about diffing?..13:36
<ajs6f>enleeten: Yes, you can version resources in the REST API.
<ajs6f>avmich: No, because diffing is ill-defined over resource types.
<enleeten>usually diffing a 3d model is not a common thing
<ajs6f>enleeten: Yes, that.
<enleeten>thanks guys, I'm excited now :)13:37
I was going to basically write this and it already exists
<avmich>ajs6f: yes, for diffing you usually want to have a finer structure, not big opaque binary objects
<ajs6f>enleeten: Welcome to the buzzsaw.
<enleeten>I was looking at some other solutions like jackrabbit, etc
but none of them were like fedora, which on the surface is exactly what I envisioned
<ajs6f>avmich: Sure. And the semantics of "delta" are not always shared. For example, two groups of people comparing two video files may want to handle differences in subtitle tracks in different ways.13:38
<avmich>character replacement instead of deletion and insertion?..
something like that?
<ajs6f>enleeten: Where are you coming from? (I.e. academia, industry, are you with some organization)?13:39
<ajs6f>avmich: Even before that. They may not agree on whether a difference in a subtitle track constitutes a real difference to be recorded, or only differences in the video or audio track. Or for another example, consider taking the difference between two examples of genetic information. to do that in a useful way, you really need to bring some specialized knowledge to bear.13:40
enleeten: Most intriguing.13:41
<avmich>well... that's more of interpretations, like "do we really care about this particular change, or semantically consider it insignificant"? Bitwise it's still a change...13:42
<escowles>avmich: right -- but that's exactly the point. someone might care about bitwise changes, but other people might only care about some abstraction above that13:43
<ajs6f>avmich: My point is that the bitwise difference is often not that interesting or useful. There's no point in presenting people with a mass of bit modifications if they have no idea whether those modifications matter or add up to a substantive change in the material under examination.
avmich: What escowles said.
<ajs6f>avmich: My a/v conservator here at UVa likes to make this point.
ah, about videos...
<ajs6f>avmich: Right.
avmich: Then introduce compression. (A/V digital compression). The "difference" between compressed and uncompressed, bitwise, is enormous. That's the point. But the difference on some other level is what actually matters.13:45
enleeten: If you start using Fedora, you will find yourself involved in a lot of conversations about ontology and semantics and the meaning of words.
<avmich>and oysters will get eaten13:46
<enleeten>heh :)13:47
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<peichman>@awoods/@acoburn: sitrep on 1790: I have a working delegation implementation in ServletContainerAuthenticationProvider, w/unit tests15:05
it is gonna take me a little bit to figure out the integration test framework, though, before adding integration tests15:06
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<acoburn>peichman: thanks!
peichman: the integration tests are a little tricky, but there are a lot of examples in ./src/test/…/integration15:07
<peichman>acoburn: looking through there now, trying to find one I can just copy and tweak :-)15:08
but so far, it is working in my manual testing
<acoburn>peichman: that's a good place to start15:09
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<whikloj>awoods: ping15:52
acoburn: do you know how to enable a simple RbAcl scheme, I am starting to think FCREPO-1760 is not WebAC specific15:53
<acoburn>whikloj: I'll take a look, just a sec
whikloj: you mean how to build a war file with rbacl enabled?15:55
<whikloj>acoburn: no I can do that, I mean how would I setup a resource to be restricted to a user? Sorry never used it
<acoburn>whikloj: I haven't actually used it either :-(15:56
<whikloj>acoburn: that's ok, I'll play around with it
<whikloj>awoods: just wondering how I would duplicate your test of FCREPO-1760 using RbAcl
I think the path is wrong before it gets to WebACRolesProvider15:59
<awoods>whikloj: rbacl is pretty easy to use...16:00
whikloj: basically: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FEDORA4x/RESTful+HTTP+API+-+Access+Roles#RESTfulHTTPAPI-AccessRoles-BluePOSTSettherolesassignedonthisresource
whikloj: on the resource you want to protect (or its parent hierarchy), execute the POST mentioned in the link above with a json body...16:01
<whikloj>awoods: ok, that is easy. Going to try mocking up my IT in RbAcl and see if it fails there too
<awoods>whikloj: with agent names and roles16:02
{"testuser" : ["writer"]}
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<whikloj>All: Is there some of maven caching on a Mac? I remove the output of a class, rebuild fcrepo4, then try building webac and it appears that nothing has changed?17:27
<awoods>whikloj: what do you mean by "I remove the output of a class"?17:28
like class drizzle?
<whikloj>I had VersionRdfContext do a "concat(new RdfStream())", so it outputs no version triples, but still seems to.17:29
I would have guessed I would get a different error at least
<awoods>to be clear...
you made code updates to VersionRdfContext...
ran: mvn clean install17:30
then ran: mvn clean install (on fcrepo-webapp-plus)?
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<whikloj>awoods: yes17:46
I may just be burnt, I clearly am missing some amazing debugging thing java lets you do.17:47
awoods: actually I wrote the IT, so I rebuild fcrepo4, then build fcrepo-module-auth-webac17:48
<awoods>whikloj: are you building fcrepo4 from the top? or just the fcrepo-kernel-modeshape project?17:55
<whikloj>awoods: from the top
whikloj: are you creating versions?
<whikloj>awoods: in the test ?
<awoods>whikloj: in whatever place you are not seeing the expected code changes.17:56
<whikloj>awoods: I'm not sure anymore, I think I know where the versionRdf is called. So I tried to comment it out. But either VersionRdfContext is not the problem or ...17:57
<awoods>whikloj: the issue that I have seen only arises if you are webac-protecting a resource that actually has versions.17:58
<whikloj>awoods: right, unless you use Prefer: minimal17:59
<whikloj>based on that, my guess is it was somewhere in here. https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/blob/master/fcrepo-http-api/src/main/java/org/fcrepo/http/api/ContentExposingResource.java#L222-L26418:00
<awoods>whikloj: all that block of code does is establishes the rdfStreams to be lazy loaded later.18:01
<whikloj>awoods: Right but VersionRdfContext is not there, that I can see?
awoods: It seems to get loaded by this: https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/blob/master/fcrepo-http-api/src/main/java/org/fcrepo/http/api/ContentExposingResource.java#L26718:02
awoods: which calls this: https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/blob/master/fcrepo-http-api/src/main/java/org/fcrepo/http/api/url/HttpApiResources.java#L110-L11418:03
awoods: I gotta run, but I'll do some more checking later. cheers
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[fcrepo-karaf] awoods pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vlecK
fcrepo-karaf/master b9a2d37 Aaron Coburn: don't inherit scm values
fcrepo-karaf/master 07f8cee Andrew Woods: Merge pull request #14 from acoburn/fcrepo-1782...
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[fcrepo4] awoods pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vlec9
fcrepo4/master 04b9beb Aaron Coburn: define scm directly instead of relying on inheritance
fcrepo4/master 9d28989 Andrew Woods: Merge pull request #928 from acoburn/fcrepo-1783...
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fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-karaf#44 (master - 07f8cee : Andrew Woods): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-karaf/compare/9a0397c01395...07f8cee9fa62
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-karaf/builds/88235963
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fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac#46 (master - 06dc9c6 : Andrew Woods): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/compare/8b16868b87cc...06dc9c615d05
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/builds/88236605
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fcrepo4/fcrepo4#4110 (master - 9d28989 : Andrew Woods): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/compare/be7beb8b3d2e...9d28989168c6
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/builds/88236579
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