Log of the #fcrepo channel on chat.freenode.net

Using timezone: Eastern Standard Time
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[fcrepo4] acoburn opened pull request #1042: use correct postgres JDBC connector (modeshape5...fix_postgresql) https://git.io/vr1DV
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<bseeger>is here and can take notes11:02
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<whikloj>ruebot: i'm here
<kat3_drx>Katherine Lynch, Michael Gibney, Emily Morton-Owens, UPenn
lol11:04
yes
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<whikloj>lol11:06
https://issues.jboss.org/browse/MODE-2603
<ajwagner>I just called in as well.11:07
<acoburn>escowles: https://issues.jboss.org/projects/MODE/versions/1233005511:08
that suggests a release date of July 13
<escowles>acoburn: :-/11:09
<whikloj>+1 to implementations, seems like a lot of work for little benefit11:10
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* kat3_drx *nods*11:11
<acoburn>https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/pull/1040/files#diff-d372035f89c8d0846920e20bd13e0145R51411:15
<whikloj>makes sense, but +1 to wait for ajs6f11:16
hahaha
<ruebot>https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/pull/1033#discussion_r63703110
<whikloj>kat3_drx: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FF/Use+Cases11:24
<kat3_drx>whikloj++11:25
<whikloj>escowles++ # good explanation11:26
lol11:29
<kat3_drx>escowles++ acoburn++ thanks!11:30
<escowles>kat3_drx: no problem -- look forward to seeing your use cases and figuring out something that's going to work for you
<whikloj>+1 to Messaging11:37
<ruebot>https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-event-ontology
<whikloj>Events ticket - https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-196011:38
<ajwagner>http://www.ldp4j.org/#/ is the only one I'm familiar with11:49
(Outside of https://github.com/linkeddata/rdflib.js)
<ruebot>acoburn++
<mgibney>Do you have any links/documentation regarding ongoing work on the S3 Modeshape binary store?11:57
<escowles>dropping off for another call...12:00
<bseeger>ruebot++
okay12:01
<kat3_drx>ruebot++
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<bseeger>They will be up in a minute, but I want to look over them, so I'll ping you when I'm done.
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<ruebot>bseeger++12:03
<bbranan>Just realized that the Modeshape ticket I reference with regard to an S3 binary store is pretty old, referring to ModeShape 3, so not likely not relevant to ModeShape 5: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/MODE-144612:06
Just realized that the Modeshape ticket I reference with regard to an S3 binary store is pretty old, referring to ModeShape 3, so likely not relevant to ModeShape 5: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/MODE-1446
Link to the (currently empty) github repo where I'm working on the S3 binary store implementation: https://github.com/bbranan/modeshape-s3-binary-store12:07
<bseeger>ruebot: I think the notes are good to go12:09
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<ruebot>bseeger++
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[fcrepo4] ajs6f pushed 1 new commit to modeshape5: https://git.io/vrMuC
fcrepo4/modeshape5 4fa50b4 Aaron Coburn: use correct postgres JDBC connector (#1042)
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<ruebot>apb18++13:07
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fcrepo4/fcrepo4#4483 (modeshape5 - 4fa50b4 : Aaron Coburn): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/compare/7e02df7fec64...4fa50b478fa8
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/builds/133161517
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<apb18>https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-api-x/issues/313:16
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<ruebot>bseeger: those are some killer notes :-)13:18
<bseeger>ruebot: thanks, I can be a bit verbose sometimes...13:19
<ruebot>bseeger++13:20
bseeger: totally worth it :-)
<bseeger>ruebot: :)
<diegopino>http://sswap.info right?
<ddavis>Yes.13:21
Information on it is kind of spread out. I had to make a cyverse account to get to more material.13:22
http://www.cyverse.org/13:23
For those having to hang in with Fedora 3 notably Islandora installations, we published Adam Sorokas' trippi-sparql module earlier this week.13:30
https://github.com/Smithsonian/trippi-sparql
<ruebot>ddavis++ ajs6f++
* ajs6f takes a bow, trips over own feet, rolls off the stage
<diegopino>ajs6f++13:31
<ddavis>Its in Maven Central
We will put out more documentation and a download next week.13:32
It supports the traditional Fedora rebuilder and RI calls but not the RISearch UI. It expects to have Fuseki installed.13:33
<ajs6f>I'm happy to answers questions and do minor support for that connector here or by email.
<ruebot>ddavis, ajs6f: y'all should *BLAST* that to islandora and islandora-dev lists :-)13:34
<ajs6f>ddavis: Just a minor correction: it expects to have URIs for services that support SPARQL Query and Update. It doesn't care if there are Fuseki or anything else (Blazegraph, Sesame, whatever).
I do use Fuseki in the tests, because it's what SI is working with. But whatever you want that knows SPARQL-over-HTTP is fine.13:35
<ddavis>I am lurking in API-X. It tested against Fuseki.
<ajs6f>And it does now support the RISearch page.
SPARQL only, obviously. iTQL is a purely Mulgara thing, these days.13:36
Basically, if you are only using Fedora 3's APIs, you should be able to drop this thing in with your choice of triplestore behind it.
As long as you are not using iTQL. Which you shouldn't be. It's 2016.13:37
<ddavis>Working on broadcasting.
<ajs6f>Tell 'em they're welcome to ping me with questions.
And welcome to send you bottles of wine to thank SI for funding it.13:38
<ddavis>I saw the number of folks logged into the chat right now so I wanted to give laurel and hardy congrats to Adam before a sympathetic crowd.13:39
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<ajs6f>ddavis: Are you playing Laurel or Hardy? I do a pretty good Laurel face, but I am more of the blowhard type, like Hardy.
<ddavis>Just channelling Blazing Saddles13:42
<ajs6f>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuHKWzWtBzM13:43
<apb18>https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-api-x/issues/313:49
https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-api-x/issues/4
https://github.com/fcrepo4-labs/fcrepo-api-x/issues/5
<ruebot>looks like awoods has two api-x teams setup already. maybe i should just let him do this...13:50
* ruebot doesn't want to upset the awoods
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<ajs6f>Yeah, awoods is quite the fierce tiger.
* ruebot runs to another meeting13:53
<ajs6f>bbranan: One question with which you will need to work for multitenancy is what PUT means. can you create uncontained containers with PUT in Fedora? tjohnson has done some thinking about this, but I don't know if he has come to a particularl conclusion.13:56
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<bbranan>@ajs6f: Yes, there are several questions about how it will work to have multiple root nodes in Fedora. In order to reasonably interact with any particular tree, there will need to be a way to specify which "tenant" you would like to engage. That runs across the entirety of the API. I'm hoping that we can keep the modeling questions limited by considering each "tenant" its own tree, and not allowing interactions. We'll see how that g14:17
<ajs6f>bbranan: if you allow PUT to create uncontained containers, those right there are your tenants. You address them by URI, just like anything else on the web. Anything else, frankly, is going to get ugly. (Magic headers? Weird query params?)14:20
<awoods>ajs6f: and then use WebAC to ensure that the various roots are not accessible by other tenants?14:22
<ajs6f>awoods: Sure, if that is something about which you are being paid to care.14:23
awoods:bbranan: It's just a bunch of URIs. There are ways to secure those.
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<acoburn>ajs6f: say you have tenant a in /rootA and tenant b in /rootB, can tenant A make a resource in /rootA/resource that links to /rootB/resource?14:24
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<ajs6f>acoburn: Yes. tenant A can also make a link to http://dbpedia.org/myLeftKnee, even though tenant A doesn't own Wikipedia or my knee.
acoburn: Making links is not an aggressive act.14:25
<awoods>ajs6f: there is a lot of logic that translates internal and external repo URIs14:26
<ajs6f>awoods: Yes. Why do you mention it?
<awoods>ajs6f: meaning, repo resources are treated differently than wikipedia resources.14:27
<acoburn>ajs6f: Fedora treats internal and external URIs quite differently
<ajs6f>acoburn: Yes, but _links don't have different meanings_.
dc:creator = dc:creator whatever the URI on the end of it.
<acoburn>my point is this: does referential integrity apply when creating a link to an object outside of one's own root node?14:28
<bbranan>ajs6f: JCR (and thus ModeShape) supports the notion of workspaces. Creating one of those workspaces creates a new root node. (http://www.day.com/specs/jcr/2.0/13_Workspace_Management.html) I was thinking that might be a better option than allowing general use of uncontained containers.
<ajs6f>acoburn: That's an implementation choice.
bbranan: That is a commitment to JCR I would be _extremely_ loath to undertake.14:29
bbranan: We exposed workspaces in the past via Fedora. We no longer do.
awoods: Does this multitenancy thing merit a spec topic call?14:31
acoburn: Especially because referential integrity itself is an implementation choice.
<acoburn>ajs6f: that's fair14:32
ajs6f: so to be clear, the Fedora spec will not require ref integrity, correct?14:33
<ajs6f>acoburn:awoods:bbranan: I'm not trying to prevent Bill from getting his work done. But I'd very much like him to a) do it in a way that lasts and b) do it in a way that establishes a healthy pattern for the long term and the large community.
acoburn: I don't think so, and I would argue against any such suggestion.14:34
<acoburn>ajs6f: ok, that's cool
<awoods>ajs6f: We have one stakeholder for multi-tenancy at the moment. For a special topic call, it would be good to have at lease two.
<ajs6f>awoods: I thought it was on e of the original use cases? Oh, well. My memory is shot.14:35
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[fcrepo-module-auth-rbacl] awoods closed pull request #30: Fixed a bug that resulted in an exception when deleting properties. (master...FCREPO-2027) https://git.io/vr09w
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<bbranan>ajs6f: This is precisely why I brought this up at the tech call, to make sure any work I do is in line with Fedora patterns
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[fcrepo-module-auth-webac] awoods pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vrMH8
fcrepo-module-auth-webac/master e51121f Mike Durbin: Added integration test for deleting a property....
fcrepo-module-auth-webac/master 82f0ae6 Andrew Woods: Merge pull request #64 from mikedurbin/FCREPO-2027...
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<ajs6f>bbrana++
bbranan++14:36
Although bbrana is cool, too.
bbranan: In this case, we have to invent a pattern in line with which you can then work.
<awoods>ajs6f: We can track down stakeholders who may still be associated with use cases.
<bbranan>awoods: https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/FF/Multi-tenancy+Single+Fedora+Instance14:38
<ajs6f>awoods:bbranan:acoburn: I have to run for a bit, but I think it might be worthwhile doing that (tracking down stakeholders). Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed. —Proverbs 15:22
bbranan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZpIrlcZmXQ
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<ddavis>It does not seem to work that way in D.C.
<awoods>ajs6f/bbranan: https://wiki.duraspace.org/label/FF/uc-multi-tenancy ...not promising
<ddavis>re: advisers14:39
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fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac#135 (master - 82f0ae6 : Andrew Woods): The build was broken.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/compare/240e0864ae8f...82f0ae64be89
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/builds/133186963
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<awoods>bbranan: although HyBox represents a strong use case
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<awoods>bbranan: it would be helpful to get a list of your/HyBox expectations of what F4 multi-tenancy would mean.
<bbranan>ddavis: re: D.C., this may be our problem: "Without wise leadership a nation falls" - Proverbs 11:14a14:43
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fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-rbacl#58 (master - b6af388 : Andrew Woods): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-rbacl/compare/8e9f8be1c867...b6af388704d2
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-rbacl/builds/133186916
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<bbranan>awoods: I can write something up about how HyBox would like to make use of multi-tenancy in Fedora14:46
<awoods>bbranan: some bullet points would do the trick14:47
<bbranan>awoods: I'm on it
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<bbranan>As an aside, has there been any discussion of moving Fedora chat to slack? It seems to have worked well within Hydra. I know personally it would make tracking these discussions easier.14:51
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<acoburn>bbranan: I don't think there has been any discussion re: slack for this channel14:55
afk15:00
<mikeAtUVa>I wonder if slack isn't a little unwelcoming for FOSS projects.15:01
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<awoods>mikeAtUVa: there is a slight barrier to entry for slack
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fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac#135 (master - 82f0ae6 : Andrew Woods): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/compare/240e0864ae8f...82f0ae64be89
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/builds/133186963
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<bbranan>awoods: what is the barrier to entry for slack?
<awoods>bbranan: can you just connect and start chatting?15:18
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<whikloj>Like https://iiif.slack.com/ ?15:20
<awoods>whikloj: it appears as if iiif.slack.com requires a login15:22
whikloj: I wonder what they are saying in there
<bbranan>awoods: Hydra allows anyone to join through a simple form, but you do need to create an account15:23
<awoods>bbranan: do you have a link?15:24
<bbranan>Seems like a pretty small barrier, 172 people are on the hydra slack channel at this point
awoods: Slack team: https://project-hydra.slack.com Joining a Slack team requires an invitation, but anyone can generate an automatic invite using the form at https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1cRJaOTo2pHAeMzfE3hKL3toPHF2_e4ZXw3ufOXlF2vU/viewform
<awoods>bbranan: from https://project-hydra.slack.com/ it is not clear to me how to ask for the form.15:25
<whikloj>awoods: yes, diegopino pointed that out to me a couple weeks back
<bbranan>awoods: you have to go to the form first, to get the invite
<awoods>I wonder how many of the 172 hydra slackers are just people out in the wild who have a brief curiosity about hydra, and how many joined based on a mailing-list announcement.15:26
<bbranan>awoods: I don't know, but you can join and look at the list15:27
<awoods>bbranan: the point is that there is a slight barrier to entry15:28
<mikeAtUVa>bbranan: are there slack clients for linux? Are any of them open source? How does slack profit from our use of their proprietary network?
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<bbranan>mikeAtUVa: I believe there is a Linux client, awoods would know15:31
<acoburn>mikeAtUVa: you can use slack with a web browser
what you _can't_ do with slack is link to discussions that happen there
i.e. in wiki pages or meeting notes, sometimes awoods will link to IRC discussions15:32
<awoods>mikeAtUVa: there is a linux client... but I have not been pleased with it.
<bbranan>awoods: I assume you use the browser option then?
<awoods>bbranan: yes... just for duraspace.slack. All other slack accounts are ignored.15:33
<acoburn>I think slack is great for closed groups — we use it at Amherst, and I love it; but for OSS projects, I share mikeAtUVa's concerns
<bbranan>While you can't link to a conversation, the history of conversations is maintained, and anyone could join at any time15:35
<ajwagner>Only 10,000 messages on the free version, which isn't useful for an OSS project.
<acoburn>right now anyone can read the IRC logs anonymously at irclogs.fcrepo.org15:36
with slack, you'd need to create an account
<jcoyne>And google indexes it, so that's nice.
<awoods>Google: "AbstractIT site:irclogs.fcrepo.org"15:40
jcoyne: that is interesting that google indexes slack organizations that otherwise require a logon.15:42
jcoyne: do you have an example google query I can try?
<jcoyne>I'm talking about irc logs
<awoods>jcoyne++
bbranan: however, this conversation has clearly missed the benefits of slack. You were saying something about tracking conversations?15:47
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<bbranan>awoods: With the join/leave messages and integrations like travis mixed in with conversation, it's somewhat noisy in here, slack lets you break those conversations out into different channels
awoods: And of course there is a whole range of integration options15:51
<awoods>bbranan: I can see how the automated traffic we have in this IRC channel could be bothersome.
<bseeger>there's not a huge amount of traffic here, though, overall.
<awoods>hi, bseeger
<whikloj>now not withstanding15:52
<bseeger>awoods: hi
<ruebot>my vote is to leave it as is for irc
<acoburn>ruebot: are you calling a vote?
<ruebot>i use slack a lot, but i don't think it is ideal for #fcrepo or #islandora
acoburn: just chiming in :-)
<awoods>I think ruebot is just voting
<acoburn>I use slack a lot, too, and I agree with ruebot
* ruebot climbs the turnbuckle, and calls for a vote15:53
<awoods>I would be interested to know how/why hydra felt differently
<jcoyne>because slack is a better experience, mostly due to persistence + mobile app + notifications15:54
<awoods>jcoyne: mobile is a good point15:55
jcoyne: although I have an app for IRC on my phone, I rarely use it. However, my slack app, I use.
<jcoyne>I think it's a reach to say that IRC is a low barrier to entry for people too.15:56
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<acoburn>I completely agree with jcoyne on that ^^^
<jcoyne>For us who have been on irc for 20+ years, it seems like a low barrier
<awoods>I wonder if there is cultural component as well. IRC: you are on your computer working when you are in a channel. Slack: you may just be chatting.15:57
..on your phone
<whikloj>awoods: your going to make me have another chat application open, aren't you15:58
<awoods>whikloj: would I do that to you?
<whikloj>awoods: stranger things have happened...15:59
<jcoyne>On hydra we didn't consciously choose one over the other, someone made a slack channel, and organically the conversation moved there.16:00
#projecthydra still exists, but mostly it's github talking to zoia
<whikloj>because half the conversation is in one location or the other16:01
<jcoyne>There's no perfect choice unfortunately16:02
<whikloj>jcoyne++16:03
perhaps a better IRC client? https://www.irccloud.com/16:04
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<bseeger>there's also gitter.im
can't really speak to it myself though, I only just logged in for the first time ever
<apb18>bseeger: I've seen those 'glitter' badges on some github projects. Visually, it looks like a kind of slack clone. That's all I know about it, though.16:10
<bseeger>apb18: yeah, it does look like a slack clone - very busy UI16:11
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The Slack conversation may have moved past me at this point, but I would throw in that IRC rooms are cheap/free. If the announcements about "This got merged" or "Travis puked on his shoes again." are annoying, we could start to break them out into separate rooms. I don't know how closely that matches Slack's functionality, just a thought.16:33
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<ajs6f>barmintor: http://techcrunch.com/2016/05/26/jury-finds-googles-implementation-of-java-in-android-was-fair-use/
<whikloj>ajs6f: it's only annoying when lots of work is being done on Fedora....so not super-annoying16:35
<ajs6f>barmintor: But "However, Oracle attorneys have already indicated that they will appeal the decision." I'm shocked, shocked.
whikloj: It doesn't bother me at all. But I just thought I'd throw it in.
<barmintor>ajs6f: I too am shocked16:36
<ajs6f>I think we are all shocked. Just shocked. I couldn't be more surprised if I ate a surprise pie with a scoop of surprise ice cream and surprise sprinkles.
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<ruebot>awoods: i still have to send out the notes from the call to the list... still on my todo for the day16:48
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[fcrepo-module-auth-webac] escowles pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vrDm9
fcrepo-module-auth-webac/master 08f2df5 Aaron Coburn: acl:agent should accept a URI...
fcrepo-module-auth-webac/master 9f17cce Esmé Cowles: Merge pull request #58 from acoburn/fcrepo-1895...
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<awoods>ruebot: thanks
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fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac#137 (master - 9f17cce : Esmé Cowles): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/compare/82f0ae64be89...9f17cce9ab9c
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/builds/133220349
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<ruebot_away>awoods: are you around tomorrow at all?18:32
<awoods>ruebot:yes
ruebot: you?
<ruebot_away>awoods: yeah. wanted to see if you had 10-15 minutes to chat about test 3, and my problems.18:33
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[fcrepo-module-auth-webac] awoods opened pull request #65: Clean-up related to: https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-1895 (master...fcrepo-1895) https://git.io/vrDaP
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<awoods>ruebot_away: would 9:30am ET work?18:35
<ruebot_away>awoods: yessir
awoods: skype, hangout, or freehd line?18:36
<awoods>ruebot_away: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/event/c1glu6soq43r1rr6ou17qtobug8
<ruebot_away>awoods++18:37
awoods: talk to ya tomorrow :-)
<awoods>ruebot_away: cheers
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[fcrepo-module-auth-webac] acoburn pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vrDVG
fcrepo-module-auth-webac/master c7454bc Andrew Woods: Clean-up related to: https://jira.duraspace.org/browse/FCREPO-1895
fcrepo-module-auth-webac/master 0d3308c Aaron Coburn: Merge pull request #65 from awoods/fcrepo-1895...
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fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac#139 (master - 0d3308c : Aaron Coburn): The build passed.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/compare/9f17cce9ab9c...0d3308c24967
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4/fcrepo-module-auth-webac/builds/133244691
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awoods: ping
<awoods>acoburn19:04
<acoburn>related to the 4.6.0 release, if you wanted to move forward on that quickly, I'm OK with that19:05
there are a few things that I'd _like_ to have in 4.6.0
<awoods>acoburn: If the HyBoxers are needing it for an OpenRepositories demo, it could be nice of us to try to enable that.
<acoburn>definitely this: https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/pull/1040
<awoods>acoburn: I am reviewing that one now19:06
<acoburn>and this gets us half-way towards a clean separation of fcrepo-http-* and fcrepo-kernel-modeshape
https://github.com/fcrepo4/fcrepo4/pull/1041
once that second one is merged, I'll do the rest of the "get MODE out of the HTTP layers"19:07
which actually isn't such a big task (I think)
<awoods>acoburn: ok, I will try have my review done on both of those PRs tomorrow
<acoburn>also, we said we would remove the fcr:import and fcr:export endpoints for the 4.6.0 release19:08
if I have a few days, I could get that done; otherwise, that could wait for later
<awoods>acoburn: we can do that... it is the fcr:backup / fcr:restore that are actually useful.
<acoburn>the last thing I wanted for 4.6 was a change in the message format, but I think that needs more discussion19:09
I have a POC that _I_ think is in good shape, but it is something that should involve more input from the community
<awoods>acoburn: yes, likely
acoburn: thanks for your work in keeping the momentum going forward.19:10
<acoburn>awoods: np, and welcome back
<awoods>acoburn: it is good to be home
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<acoburn>awoods: the Red Sox are playing the Rockies tonight in Boston19:11
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<awoods>acoburn: MLB does not broadcast anything on basic channels
jcoyne: ping
<jcoyne>pong19:16
<awoods>jcoyne: is there priority on a Fedora release in support of a HyBox OR2016 demo?
<jcoyne>No19:17
<awoods>jcoyne: that is easy
jcoyne: thanks
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[fcrepo-camel-toolbox] awoods pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vrD6a
fcrepo-camel-toolbox/master 7fcb914 Aaron Coburn: Remove dependency on fcrepo-audit (#90)...
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fcrepo4-exts/fcrepo-camel-toolbox#241 (master - 7fcb914 : Aaron Coburn): The build has errored.
Change view : https://github.com/fcrepo4-exts/fcrepo-camel-toolbox/compare/ac6fdb7c7eaf...7fcb914c9af2
Build details : https://travis-ci.org/fcrepo4-exts/fcrepo-camel-toolbox/builds/133254102
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